So after taking the Original Nipple-Wing to the NOVA Open, I decided to review what I learned about the Shiny Ones.
A - They can actually be quite competitive given the right scenarios
B - They have several shortcomings that when exploited leaves you with a sound, sound beating.
So I thought I'd take another crack at the list. This time not just to be 'fun' like the last one was, but to actually be able to compete with the beast.
First to go? Mephiston. I love the guy, he is truly a beast. But the army is designed to Deepstrike, and any unit that can't (or at least Outflank) is gone.
Next to go? My stubborn insistence that this is an "All Sanguinary Guard, all the time" army list.
So what do we add?
I still want Psychic defense/threat - so a Jump-Libby is making the trip.
I decided to beef up the Sanguinary Priests into mini-HQ's with Power weapons to take advantage of WS5.
I dropped three squads of Sang Guard, and I'm adding in two full squads of RAS. With Combat Squads, this gives me 7 potential scoring units.
I also saw SandWyrm's version of the list, and really like the inclusion of some MM/HF Landspeeders, so in they go.
What we're not adding?
Honour Guard. Yes they can be cheap and add another FNP bubble, but unless/until I take this to 2500 points, they're staying at home.
Vanguard Vets. Yes, they can attack when they Deepstrike. So what? Ok, I stand corrected (thx GraveMind), they do have Descent of Angels... I was only looking at their entries. I'll try a couple games with them, but they're still very expensive for what you get - and there's no unit discount on the special weapons. My gut feeling is that they'll come when the HG do.
Here's the version that I'm currently playing. It removes very few of the weaknesses of the original Nipple-Wing (because let's face it, how many power-weapons does one army really need?), while beefing it out quite a bit. It adds more threats and more units that the opponent has to deal with.
2000 Pts - Blood Angels Roster
HQ: Commander Dante (1#, 225 pts)
1 Commander Dante @ 225 pts
HQ: Librarian (1#, 135 pts)
1 Librarian @ 135 pts (...in Power Armour; Blood Lance; Shield of Sanguinius)
1 ...in Power Armour (Jump Pack; Hand Flamer)
(this Hand Flamer is a trial since I had 10 pts left over, it can be swapped out so that one of the Sang Priests has a PFist)
Elite: Sanguinary Priest (3#, 270 pts)
1 Sanguinary Priest @ 270 pts (Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour; Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour; Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour)
1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour (Jump Pack; Power Sword)
1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour (Jump Pack; Power Sword)
1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour (Jump Pack; Power Sword)
Troops: Sanguinary Guard (5#, 230 pts)
1 Sanguinary Guard @ 230 pts (Sanguinary Guard; Sanguinary Guard; Sanguinary Guard)
2 Sanguinary Guard
2 Sanguinary Guard (Infernus Pistol)
1 Sanguinary Guard (Power Fist)
Troops: Sanguinary Guard (5#, 230 pts)
1 Sanguinary Guard @ 230 pts (Sanguinary Guard; Sanguinary Guard; Sanguinary Guard)
2 Sanguinary Guard (Infernus Pistol)
1 Sanguinary Guard (Power Fist)
2 Sanguinary Guard
Troops: Sanguinary Guard (5#, 230 pts)
1 Sanguinary Guard @ 230 pts (Sanguinary Guard; Sanguinary Guard; Sanguinary Guard)
1 Sanguinary Guard (Power Fist)
2 Sanguinary Guard (Infernus Pistol)
2 Sanguinary Guard
Troops: Assault Squad (10#, 235 pts)
7 Assault Squad @ 235 pts (Meltagun; Meltagun)
2 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1)
Troops: Assault Squad (10#, 235 pts)
7 Assault Squad @ 235 pts (Meltagun; Meltagun)
2 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)
Total Roster Cost: 2000
um. Vanguard do have DoA. When you give them Jump packs.
ReplyDeleteEquipment page 62 under jump packs
"..., a Blood Angels model with a jump pack has the Descent of Angels special rule"
But overall looks like a pretty good list. I'd be interested in playing against something like this. Just wondering if you can count on enough stuff coming in when/where you want it.
Everything that has DoA gets a reroll on their Reserves roll. So they come in pretty dang reliably.
ReplyDeleteVanguard are awesome with DoA. Deck out with storm shields and use them to tie down problem units while your SG sweep in to deliver the hammer blow.
ReplyDeleteYeah, they're great to to up a problem unit - but what if your opponent is all meched up? I see them as situational at best, and expensive as hell for what they do at worst.
ReplyDeleteBut like I said, I'll play a couple games with them to test out.
Anyone suggest a recommended VV loadout? I've run a couple through the noggin, but I'd like to see what you think is effective.
You drop in and start smashing up the parking lot. That or jump in on units that have had their transports blown.
ReplyDeleteI run 2 units at 2k. Each has a Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield, Lightning Claw + Storm Shield, normal Storm Shield, melta bombs, and a schmuck. Pricey, but very good at covering the SG's weaknesses, namely getting shot up upon arrival and shit like TH/SS Terms.
Nice army, with a silly name.
ReplyDelete40 marines & 3 Speeders should still fit in a shoe box too.
Not a bad looking list. Let us know how it goes.
ReplyDelete@stjohn70, Chumbalaya
ReplyDeleteI run my VV with five dudes: sarge w/ SS & PF, 2 dudes w/ SS, 2 chumps. 235 pts.
3 storm shields is sufficient to tie up units for a while, PF to add a little oompf. It's been working well for a speed bump so far, I just don't expect combat heroics, and they don't disappoint.
More would be nice but points are an issue.
YMMV
thx for the game friday nite, it was super helpful getting me back into the groove of 40k...youll be glad to know i remembered to hit and run in the tournament :D
ReplyDeleteHi John
ReplyDeleteHere is an article I wrote on how to effectively use Vanguard vets in a DoA style list:
http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com/2010/08/vanguard-veterans-for-blood-angels-what.html
A lot of my friends over on the B&C BA forum have taken a shine to them and by all reports they are having lots of success with them. The stormshield while expensive makes a huge difference in their survivability... Of course the 3++ is solid and there are only two units that can load up on them - VV & HG. I prefer the VV due to their HI. At BoLScon mine rampaged six out of seven games. I also take the Sanguinor and since I only have two sergeants in my current list this means 50% of the time the VV sergeant will become a mini HQ that can't be targeted in close combat. You could easily drop one of your SG and take Sanguinor. I'd also drop the Librarian as they are at best a glass hammer... It's hard to use them as a support character in a DoA style list like you are running since fast enemy armies can engage the Librarian. My other suggestion is try using a Stormraven - they fit in perfectly with a DoA army, give some long range AT (TL las & TL MM) plus you can then carry a dreadnaught with Blood Talons.
I only run one squad of SG with Dante and a Priest attached. I like that you are adding some RAS to your list. With a Priest or Chaplain attached they are quite strong in close combat and have the added benefit of being able to carry meltaguns.
Anyways I think you are heading in the right direction.
:-)
G