I took this army list to the 2008 Las Vegas GT and did quite well with it, going 4-0-1 with 82 Battle Points
(2 complete wins, 1 major win, 1 minor win and 1 "winning" tie 13-8). I could have done better, but the cost of the army prevented me from completing it until two weeks prior and I didn't get much practice in with it.
Even then, I was a half-turn away from playing Marc Parker one Table 1 for game 5... that would have been fun to see.
So here's the list:
1750 Pts - Witch Hunters Roster
HQ: Palatine (7#, 197 pts)
1 Palatine @ 197 pts (Book of St. Lucius; Melta Bombs; Bolter; Add Celestian Retinue)
4 Celestian Retinue (Bolter x2; Meltagun x2)
1 Sister Superior (Bolter)
1 Immolator (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)
Elite: Celestian Squad (6#, 150 pts)
4 Celestian Squad @ 150 pts (Bolter x2; Meltagun x2)
1 Sister Superior (Bolter)
1 Immolator (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)
Elite: Celestian Squad (6#, 150 pts)
4 Celestian Squad @ 150 pts (Bolter x2; Meltagun x2)
1 Sister Superior (Bolter)
1 Immolator (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)
Elite: Celestian Squad (6#, 150 pts)
4 Celestian Squad @ 150 pts (Bolter x2; Meltagun x2)
1 Sister Superior (Bolter)
1 Immolator (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)
Troops: Battle Sisters Squad (11#, 204 pts)
9 Battle Sisters Squad @ 204 pts (Bolter x7; Meltagun x2; Mount in Rhino)
1 Rhino (Storm Bolter)
1 Veteran Sister Superior (Book of St. Lucius; Melta Bombs; Bolter)
Troops: Battle Sisters Squad (11#, 204 pts)
9 Battle Sisters Squad @ 204 pts (Bolter x7; Meltagun x2; Mount in Rhino)
1 Rhino (Storm Bolter)
1 Veteran Sister Superior (Book of St. Lucius; Melta Bombs; Bolter)
Troops: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (5#, 70 pts)
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers @ 70 pts (Frag Grenades; Targeter; Hellgun x3; Meltagun x2)
Fast Attack: Dominion Squad (6#, 141 pts)
4 Dominion Squad @ 141 pts (Bolter x2; Flamer x2)
1 Sister Superior (Bolter)
1 Immolator (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer; Smoke Launchers)
Fast Attack: Dominion Squad (6#, 141 pts)
4 Dominion Squad @ 141 pts (Bolter x2; Flamer x2)
1 Sister Superior (Bolter)
1 Immolator (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer; Smoke Launchers)
Fast Attack: Dominion Squad (6#, 141 pts)
4 Dominion Squad @ 141 pts (Bolter x2; Flamer x2)
1 Sister Superior (Bolter)
1 Immolator (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer; Smoke Launchers)
Heavy Support: Immolator (1#, 65 pts)
1 Immolator @ 65 pts (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)
Heavy Support: Immolator (1#, 68 pts)
1 Immolator @ 68 pts (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer; Smoke Launchers)
Heavy Support: Immolator (1#, 68 pts)
1 Immolator @ 68 pts (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer; Smoke Launchers)
Total Roster Cost: 1749
This operates under the old Dark Elf theory of MSU, Multiple Small Units. Everything in the army is a threat, and nothing is "worth" more to the opponent to remove. The army has 14 meltaguns, 6 flamers, and 10 heavy flamers all mounted on 12" move and fire platforms.
Yes, with AV11 it can be easy to kill one of my transports. So what? I have 11 more!
This army scales to 2000 points by adding in 2 more IST units.
Optionally, you can add in 1 IST, remove both Battle Sister Squads, and add in a big Inducted Guard platoon to get some long range fire. This is a particularly deadly build, because at 1750 it is hard for an opponent to have enough to deal with 12 AV11 tanks. At 2000, they have more tools, so it helps if you have some guns that can slow their ability to thin through your vehicles.
Have you played the list a lot against the current Guard and SM books? I'm interested in your experiences there, as both armies can easily have adequate firepower + rhino/chimera walling to really diminish the value of the WH vehicle spam, in no small part due to the difference in vehicle costs. Also Valkyrie Chassis are fairly unpleasant for the build.
ReplyDeleteI also wonder about a Manticore shooting into that kind of target; can't really spread out too much and prevent defeat in detail against an IG force with this sort of list, I would think.
Looking forward to reading more of your thoughts. I'm in the process (still) of determining the balance points for WH/DH/IG force composition for theoretical and practical optimals; they haven't shown to be very close yet for me, so clearly I have more work to do.
I have only been well and truly beaten by a new Space Marine list - sumthin like 3 Dreads, 5 MM/Flamer Tac Squads in Rhinos, 2 MM/HF Speeders and 3 Tri-las Preds. He sat back and shredded my incoming tanks. That said, he Pen'd every shot, and on every Pen he rolled a Wrecked or Exploded result... a lot.
ReplyDeleteBut by the same token, while this list took me down, it would be outranged and outshot by a good Guard list - so I'm not certain of it's "allcomers" status.
As to Guard, they can shoot more than SM can, but once I get there... they're just Guard. Granted, I have played several IG armies in tournaments around here (including Vendetta heavy lists), but they've either been run poorly (one guy started off the table since I had first turn - allowing me two turns of crossing the table without being shot) or weren't that great of a list.
The short answer to a very long-winded reply, JWolf, is that I would have to induct Guard to really have a chance against a pure shooting list that could stand up to my foot troops once they were blown out of their vehicles.
Looks nasty.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about working in immolaters in as allies to guard, space marine and space wolf lists?
What about kill points Vs guard? If they deploy half of their forces in each corner of their deploymend zone.
ReplyDeleteHow would you deploy in that kind of situation? If you divide your army in two it seems that he could concentrate his fire to stop one of your halfs, and then try to stop your second half before it evens up the score.
I see this army working great in the other two missions, because the other guy cant just stand back and shoot, but I don´t understand how that works in kill points.
Another expample, If you play orks in kill points. If he deploys three loota squads 1" from his edge and gets first turn. You need three turns to get there with the inmo´s flamers, and that would probably mean 9 less vehicles for you. I know that you have great sucess Vs orks, so please explain to me how :)
Cough. Your brainchild? lol
ReplyDeleteDiscussed as a army back in 2003 during playtesting. Not deemed viable back then due to vehicle damage charts. Same thing with Penitent Engine based armies. I don't think much was missed, although no substantive complaints reached Andy so no changes were made. AV11 back then was pretty horrible.
@Stelek: So your inaugural comment on your friend's new blog is to take credit for an army he's well known for playing?
ReplyDeleteYou're a class act, my friend. Class act.
I thought better of my earlier post, I don't want to incite anything in your personal space john.
ReplyDeleteThat list makes me wince every time I see it. IG, DE, Tau and SM have the range to hurt it from turn 1, but with all those vehicles, old smokes, and the speed you can move and still maintain effectiveness they need to cripple you in one or two turns or they get BBQ'd.
Well, whether it was discussed or not, it wasn't public knowledge.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying I was the absolute first to think "I wonder how many Immolators I can fit in an army," but this was my implementation, and I forwarded it even at the end of 4th Ed (although the army wasn't together until 5th hit).
I have no qualms whatsoever calling this my brainchild.
Oh, feel free to start crap here Chumbalaya. While I can and will remove completely inflammatory comments, I am a firm believer in heated and thorough discussion.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/11/sisters-of-battle-homage.html
ReplyDeleteI think that covers all the bases.
Note, you can say whatever you like about me, but don't put words in my mouth I clearly did not say.
Thanks!
PS Hate the pansy yellow color scheme. Looks like my cats ass. :p
Yes! The drama has gone viral!
ReplyDeleteLove the new blog John, looking forward to reading more.
This is Purgatus, btw.
ReplyDeleteNot sure why your commenter won't let me put in my "handle." Hmmm...
The WH don't have 3rd Ed smokes, only DH get that.
ReplyDeleteIt's still a nasty army though, Bolter-Bitch hatred in every BAWKS. Question, though; 12 Immos in that picture. Who do the grey ones belong to?
Those're all mine. It's hard to tell from this pic, but the two red/black ones just to the outside of the black ones are Rhinos, not Immos.
ReplyDeleteI painted them differently by FO slot.
The Black ones are HQ and Elite (carry Celestians)
Red with more Black are Rhinos carrying Battle Sisters
Mostly Red are Fast Attack and carry Dominions
Grey are Hvy Support Immos
Frank: The Black Templar get it too.
ReplyDeletePurgatus: Because Google's comment system is free, thus it sucks mightily.
John: Are you going to 'improve' it with Guard for 2k, or no?
The armylist is great and with inducted guard it gives the ability for the immolators to get to their target while keeping the other guy's head down. The army is great against guard.
ReplyDelete